chai with zia ep. 01: rest isn't always gentle
chai with zia is a monthly chat for paid subscribers of the copper apothecary, my free weekly newsletter on healing and nourishment. You can listen online or in your favorite podcast app, or read the transcription. Feel free to submit a question for next month’s chat, share this episode with a friend, or leave a comment below.
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transcript
Hello and welcome to the first episode of Chai with Zia. I can't quite believe that this is really happening, but we are here, we're doing this, we are nervous and excited, and feeling our feelings and doing it anyway. I am Shivani, I'm your resident auntie and host of this little monthly chat. If we have not met yet, welcome and thank you for being here. I am a maker and a mender, and a queer disabled brown femme. I work to nourish my communities and heal our systems of care in pursuit of health equity and racial and disability and reproductive justice. And Chai with Zia is something that I host as an extra bonus for paid subscribers of the Copper Apothecary, which is my free weekly newsletter on healing and nourishment. We just crossed a hundred subscribers, which means there are 100 people in this beautiful, vibrant community and this is like already so far beyond what I could have imagined when I started this. So thank you for making this so dreamy, for supporting my work and my writing, and mostly for listening today.
It is a gorgeous, surprisingly warm Thursday in November today. I am sitting in a sun puddle at a new-to-me secondhand desk here at my apartment in Harlem. I have a cup of tulsi tea that I just made because we're nervous, a glass of water of course nearby. This is my second time living in the city. I've been here just over a year this time and I have to say it is never not amazing to me that I get to live here again. I went out to the grocery store this morning for some milk and some bread — some garlic, rosemary sourdough, to be precise — and I was just wandering past the brownstones and looking at the sun on the nearby church and it just feels like such a stunning bit of luck and work and privilege and joy that just allows me to build this life that I want in a city that feels like home. So I'm just really excited about that and really grateful to be here with you all today.
Anyway, I have a few very beautiful questions to answer today. So before we dive right in just a little bit of housekeeping, as usual. You can listen to this chat on Substack or on your favorite podcast app, which you can do with a private feed link. If you go to the podcast page on Substack, there'll be like a little button you can click to get that link, and you can pop that into your favorite podcast app. I am also planning to transcribe this so you can read the transcription if you would prefer instead of listening. You are always welcome to share excerpts on social media, to reach out, or comment below. Comments are open on these posts. Let me know if something resonates and also definitely let me know if it does not resonate, I want to hear, I would love to hear.
Okay, so very first question is: who is Zia and are you Zia? And I love this question because we should start off with the basics, right? Short answer, yeah, I am Zia, but I'll give you the longer answer, which is that Zia means aunt in Italian, actually. I am not Italian at all, in any way, shape or form, but that's what my nieces and nephews niecephews, niblings, call me. And I have a lot of them. I have 14, 15, 16, something like that, nieces and nephews, niecephews, niblings. Some of them call me Masi, some of them call me Bua, some of them call me Zia. Of course some of my friend's kiddos will call me Auntie Shivani.
And when one of the oldest of my nieces was about to be born, we were all kind of looking for names of what we would be called, the collection of masis and buas and aunties and all the rest of it. And we had too many buas and I didn't want to be Shivani Bua, I wanted to be something different. I didn't want to be just another Bua, or just another auntie. So I went looking to other languages and I've always really loved words for auntie. I've always really loved masis and buas and tías and zias and all the rest of it. I think auntie is just such a beautiful role to play in a kiddo's life and I am really lucky that I get to be an auntie or a zia to so many beautiful young people and many more to come, which is just a really beautiful thing. So I became Zia 13 years ago and it's also just kind of who I am. I'm an auntie in a lot of places and play that role for a lot of people in my life and in a lot of spaces, it's how I like to show up. So yeah, welcome to Chai with Zia. I'm Zia.
Our second question today is this beautiful, rich, absolutely gorgeous question. So for people still learning how to make space and time for self care, how do you differentiate healing/self care modes from stagnation? I think there are a lot of people, myself included, who are still trying to accept the concept that healing requires rest, that rest is different from idleness and that being idle is not actually a moral failing (thanks capitalism). But I also feel like it's possible to get yourself stuck? So is there a way to keep a focus on healing and self care while still keeping momentum in your life, or is the very concept of healing with momentum versus stagnation a flawed way to consider it because it's still looking at it through the lens of productivity?
I love this question so much. I love it so much. And there's just so much richness in this, there's so much to unpack. So let's unpack. I'm going to take a sip of my tea and we'll chat. Okay. I'm going to start with the first part of this question I think. How do you differentiate healing or self care modes from stagnation? So I think that the, first of all, I think the binary of healing and self care versus stagnation as a binary is kind of a false binary. And I think it's also, we're kind of comparing it to the wrong thing. And I don't say that to be dismissive because I think it can feel like stagnation. And like, so I've been thinking about this word stagnation. When I think of stagnation, I think stagnant water, I think water that's been sitting too still, and there's probably algae growing on it ,and there's probably mosquitoes all over the surface, and there's probably some dead fish and it's kind of rotting a little bit. And that's really gross.
And I think it's very true that healing and rest or self care can sometimes feel pretty stagnant and gross and uncomfortable, and something has maybe died in it and that's like, that happens, I don't want to turn away from that. But I think that the actual work of healing and self care, um, the binary is more dormancy or — rest that is healing or healing that is restful. I think that the word that I like to use for it is a lot more about dormancy than it is about stagnation. There is a stillness to it, there is a quiet and a calm to it potentially, and it might seem like there's not very much happening, right? like, dormancy — also if something is hibernating or dormant — we're in fall right now, we're getting closer to winter. A lot of things go dormant in the winter and that is quiet, but there's still so much happening underneath the surface that we just don't see or experience or feel right, that's not productive in this external facing way, but it is actually doing something.
So I think I would maybe start there. I think I do want to say that it's okay to have rest that feel stagnant, also, it's okay to have healing work that feels really shitty. That happens sometimes. But I think the majority of healing and self care that we talk about in a day to day kind of way is much more about dormancy kind of rest than it is about stagnant kind of rest. I think this next part that healing requires rest and that rest is different from idleness and that being idle is not actually a moral failing thanks to capitalism is huge and it's a really, really big part of this.
Some of you might know I had long covid earlier this summer — or for pretty much the whole spring and summer — and all of what I learned through that experience was that rest is the least gentle thing I have ever experienced. It was pretty brutal. not going to lie. And it was very different than idleness because it wasn't a, I am choosing to not get anything done right now. It was like, I cannot do anything right now and the only thing that I can do is rest, and rest in this very profound way that I have never rested before.
So there's also this piece, that rest is actually sometimes really not gentle and sometimes it is very intense, and it takes a lot of work to rest, which is really shocking actually. I think that's not something that we think about when we think about rest. But this last piece that being idle is not actually a moral failing, that even if we are choosing to not do something like, that's also okay. Yeah, being idle is not a moral failing, it is not indicative that there is anything wrong or you're being a bad person or that you are a bad person, by choosing to not do something like that's okay. That is okay.
Yeah, I think what I want to give here, what I want to offer, is permission to rest and permission to not do anything and permission to not be productive. You are not any more or less worthy of love and care and rest and nourishment because you have or have not done something. You were just worthy of it because you exist in the world.
This question of, but it's possible to get yourself stuck. So is there a way to keep focus on healing and self care while still keeping momentum in your life? I'm really curious about this concept of momentum, and what momentum or stuckness is, or how it shows up here. I think there is this binary in a way that healing is this thing that holds us back from actually doing things, or that... Actually, what kind of comes up for me here is that there's this binary between healed and unhealed, that you either are fixed or you're not fixed, you're better or you're not better, you're good or you're not good, not even better, but it's good or not good. And those two that you're like you — it's an on-off switch, that you can switch in between caring and healed and unhealed and stagnant. And that I think is a false binary. I don't think that actually exists because I think, as one of my dearest friends in the world always says, we are all just walking around this earth at the speed of our own broken hearts. And I love that. I love that so much because it's so true. We are all constantly in this flux around healed and unhealed and fixing and not fixing and honestly just being and showing up and trying to take care of ourselves as best we can, trying to auntie ourselves as best we can, and trying to auntie each other as best as we can, trying to take care of each other as best as we can.
And so I don't think a point at which you are either stuck or unstuck, dear reader, listener, question submitter. I just don't think it's possible, actually, to get yourself stuck or unstuck. I think it's kind of just being and just doing the work anyway. That can sound, I think kind of defeatist, I think sometimes that's one of the scary things to consider, is that this work is never actually done. It's the same as healing work, justice work, all of it. This work is never actually done. It's just a continual process, and I think the work of it is actually forgiving yourself and allowing yourself to do it anyway. Forgiving yourself when you get it wrong, if there is a way to get it wrong, doing it anyway, and then picking up the pieces.
The last thing that I think I want to offer for this question is — moving away from binaries of stock or unstuck or momentum versus stagnation or productive versus unproductive — I want to offer a sense of seasonality around this. I think that there are seasons that will feel stuck and there are seasons that will feel dormant and there are seasons that will feel productive, or this external, you know — I'm very literally thinking of the seasons harvest season and planting season and that there's like, we have to put down roots sometimes, and that does not look it does not productive, but it often can be productive. And I think that this is a really big piece of it too, that are you expecting yourself to produce in a way that capitalism expects us to, right, at this pace that is unsustainable or at a level of growth that is unsustainable and not actually possible? Or is it that you are moving in between seasons, and maybe allowing yourself that kind of season that finding the pace of making or creative energy or creative output that feels supportive and doesn't feel draining, that is part of your own internal season — whatever that internal season or pace is or requires, as opposed to the season or pace that is demanded of us in capitalism sometimes. It is okay to do it at your own pace too. Yeah, I want to give all of the permission here. It is okay to do it at your own pace. It is okay to have seasons of stagnant — stagnation, I was going to say stagnancy, which is not a word. It is okay to have seasons of stagnation. It is okay to have seasons of dormancy. It is okay to have seasons of production and creative output. And it's okay that they go in cycles and that they're never actually finished. Thank you for that beautiful question.
Our third and final question today comes from a dear friend's newsletter actually, which I will link, but she says that she is a bit anxious about the cold and dark winter ahead. She says, I am a planner. I am from coastal California. It is pretty much always cold in California, and by this I mean it is the same temperature inside your house as it is outside, and the nights always drop in temperature, but it's never really, really cold. Now that we live in western Massachusetts, the winters are in the tens to thirties degrees Fahrenheit or negative 12 to zero degrees Celsius. A new strategy is needed. How do I prepare for winter?
I am a person who really, really, really hates to be cold, like desperately hates to be cold, and I grew up in Massachusetts and went to school in New Hampshire, and spent a significant amount of time in Norway and in Alaska. And so I have learned — so much — how to stay warm when it is cold outside and how to survive the cold. I have many opinions about this, and both in the physical survival, thriving in the cold, and also the emotional because I think that's actually a pretty significant part of it. And I find that if I am physically warm I am much more likely to be emotionally stable and warm.
So I'm going to answer both parts of that, since that was also part of the question. When it comes to physical warmth and staying warm, I cannot cannot emphasize how important layers are and many, many, many thin, warm, gorgeous layers. When I am not even outside, just in my house sometimes, I will be in silk leggings, silk tank, like a thin pair of wool socks, a thicker pair of wool socks or slippers, fleece of some flavor leggings. like a longer merino wool sweatshirt if I have it, one of those thin kind of layers, and then a sweatshirt on top of that. Always a shawl, always a hat, always gloves, probably two gloves and many socks outside. Layers are like, the key, most beautiful, delightful thing. Do not wear cotton close to your skin. You will sweat. It will get cold, you will be very uncomfortable. Wear silk, wear wool. Merino is amazing if you can find it. Yeah, it's a beautiful, beautiful thing. Go to sports kinds of stores have them. I actually found Norwegian wool online. found it on Amazon before. You can do that and you will be warm. It is so important to stay warm.
I also find that part of knowing how to dress for the cold means that I can be outside in the cold and still be warm, and that helps me stay warm inside or it helps me actually get warmer inside. Actually getting outside and feeling the sun on my face, even though it's winter sun and it's cold, makes a huge difference to feeling warm on the inside, like when I'm inside my house. So learn how to dress for the warmth. Lots of very thin layers. I mean, learn how to dress warmly in the cold, lots of very thin layers — not cotton, but silk and wool or fleece, down is amazing. And get outside, be in the sunshine as much as you can.
When I come back into the house I am almost always sweaty that turns chilly, and that gets gross really fast and also gets cold really fast. And so at that point, that transition time, if I don't do something right then and there to keep myself warm or get myself warm from the inside out again, it will sink into my body and I will be chilled through for 24 hours and it will be miserable. I'm also a person who, when I get cold, it goes into my bones and I get really cranky, really crunchy, really miserable, really stiff very quickly. So for that transition time is strip all the layers off, put on warm, dry, clean clothes, nothing that you have been wearing, like all the way down to the bottom layer, so that you do not have any of the outside cold on your skin or close to your skin anymore.
Sometimes I will jump straight into a hot shower or a bath. I love sleeping with a heat pack. A friend has recently suggested hot water bottles and I am planning to get one. Another friend deeply loves electric blankets. Highly recommend. It's a great experience. You can warm up your bed before you get into it. All really good things to have. And tea, of course, drink hot things, drink tea, hot, hot cider, hot toddies, beautiful things at night to have to keep yourself warm from the inside out.
For the emotional warmth, emotional preparation, I kind of lean into it a little bit. I think there's a piece of it that is leaning into the cozy. It feels a little bit ridiculous to talk about this, I will say, when it is so sunny and warm outside in November, I, there's a part of me that is completely in denial that it will ever get cold, so this is good preparation for me too.
But cozy season is soup and baking things, bake breads, bake teacakes, cook soups — just kind of lean into the cozy, candles, things that make your space feel very cozy. If you have summer curtains, hang up winter curtains. I mean, that's a kind of ridiculous example, but I think it's actually part of it. If your space feels cold because you've spent the summer cooling it down, do things to make it feel warm. Blankets everywhere, throws everywhere, pillows everywhere. Things that are cozy. Cozy season is a good way to stay warm.
Anyway, I hope that helps. I hope you're warm this winter. Connect with people. I love this question. Much warmth to you and please keep submitting your questions.
This is brings us to the end! This brings us to the end of the first episode of Chai with Zia. Thank you to everyone who submitted questions. Thank you for making this such a beautiful episode to record. And thank you so much for listening to the very first episode.
If you have a question for me to answer, you can submit it via the Google form that's linked on Substack or you can email me a voice note to hello@shivani.co. Or you can email your question in writing. And if you submit a voice note, maybe I will try to figure out audio editing enough to be able to include it. But like, no promises. As always, you are welcome to share clips of this episode or screenshots of this episode.
I am sending you all so much love as we all try to be perfectly imperfect together, and dealing with the things that we can deal with, and trying to stay warm and thriving even when we are unhealed and cold. And that is okay. We have permission to do that. Love to you all, and I will talk to you soon.